Home » Public » New Beginnings » So Confused. Need help. (Is there an in-beteen gender? )
 So Confused. Need help. [message #120524] |
Tue, 16 November 2010 17:08  |
Anonymous  |
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I like being a girl. Sometimes. But, at times, I wish I were a boy.. It's not a passing feeling. I've been feeling like this for awhile. I'd like to know if it's normal to be in-between genders?
At times I LOVE being a girl, and I like my body the way it is.
But then, at times, I have a deep urge to be a guy..
Any advice for me?
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120526 is a reply to message #120524 ] |
Tue, 16 November 2010 17:21  |
 Cynthialee
Messages: 7009
Registered: September 2009
Location: NE Washington |
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Have you heard of the term androgyne?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgyny
| Quote: | For humans, an androgyne (pronounced /ˈændrəˌdʒaɪn/, AN-drə-JYNE) in terms of gender identity, is a person who does not fit cleanly into the typical masculine and feminine gender roles of their society. They may also use the term ambigender to describe themselves. Many androgynes identify as being mentally "between" woman and man, or as entirely genderless. They may identify as non-gendered, genderneutral, agendered, between genders, intergendered, bigendered, pangender or gender fluid.
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My spouse is an androgyne who sounds very similar to you.
I'll see if I can get hir to post.
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120527 is a reply to message #120526 ] |
Tue, 16 November 2010 17:33 |
| Anonymous |
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No, I've never heard that term.
The definition definitely describes me though.
And that would be great
Thank you!
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120536 is a reply to message #120524 ] |
Tue, 16 November 2010 18:39 |
Katie
Messages: 14644
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| Anonymous wrote on Tue, 16 November 2010 15:08 | I like being a girl. Sometimes. But, at times, I wish I were a boy.. It's not a passing feeling. I've been feeling like this for awhile. I'd like to know if it's normal to be in-between genders?
At times I LOVE being a girl, and I like my body the way it is.
But then, at times, I have a deep urge to be a guy..
Any advice for me?
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Aloha Ann -- Anonymous -- and welcome to the party that is self discovery!
I am not a member or yours and Sevan's camp, but my process may be of use in considering your own journey.
I was born 'male', knew I should have been a girl, thought that made me crazy -- and set out to be the best man I could figure out how to be. I learned about transition when I was sixteen years old -- and rejected the notion as equally crazy.
Life went on and -- eventually -- I worked up a male presentation that seemed to be convincing enough, if not more than a little weird.
And then, at age forty five, fate jerked the rug out from under me: I began to exhibit all the symptoms of cross gender hormone use, while taking non of the medications. One thing led to another -- and I eventually wound up seeing a gender therapist.
I was an adult approaching middle age. I had a life. A career. The last thing I wanted was to turn my world upside down with transition.
I aimed for something in between. Androgynous. A third gender.
Instead, I sailed right over the fence and landed so far inside the female norm I couldn't use the men's room when I thought that's where I should still go!  And really? Honestly? I had to admit, that's precisely where I belong. Exactly where I've known I should be since earliest childhood, the pink zone.
What does this have to do with you? Not much, really -- except for one thing: You asked for advice:
I recommend ruthless honestly. With yourself. With your therapist. With the people you love. Nothing less than utter honesty with yourself will allow you to sort this out.
That's how it worked for me.
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120552 is a reply to message #120524 ] |
Tue, 16 November 2010 19:39 |
| Anonymous |
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The thing is that I'm under 17 (age of independence in my state) and I can't imagine telling my paents.. So a gender therapist is not really a possibility.. I'm thinking I should just experiment a bit.. ? Any other ideas that might help?
Sevan- Thanks for your help :) I think I'm going to definitely join the site.
I've always been "different" I just tried to ignore it before..
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120563 is a reply to message #120524 ] |
Tue, 16 November 2010 20:02 |
| Anonymous |
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Unfortunately, even if I DID tell my parents.. I doubt they'd take me.
They really don't believe you can know you're gay, lesbian, bi, trans gender, anything like that until you're about 23...
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120565 is a reply to message #120563 ] |
Tue, 16 November 2010 20:08 |
Katie
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| Anonymous wrote on Tue, 16 November 2010 18:02 | Unfortunately, even if I DID tell my parents.. I doubt they'd take me.
They really don't believe you can know you're gay, lesbian, bi, trans gender, anything like that until you're about 23...
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Anon, may one inquire as to your local? In many places, a 17 year old can see a therapist on their own as part of school health care -- and their parents don't have to know right away, if at all.
Um ... I'm just trying to think outside the box ...
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120586 is a reply to message #120524 ] |
Wed, 17 November 2010 05:49 |
Heli H 
Messages: 2234
Registered: October 2007
Location: Siberian porch |
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| Anonymous wrote on Wed, 17 November 2010 03:08 | I like being a girl. Sometimes. But, at times, I wish I were a boy.. It's not a passing feeling. I've been feeling like this for awhile. I'd like to know if it's normal to be in-between genders?
At times I LOVE being a girl, and I like my body the way it is.
But then, at times, I have a deep urge to be a guy..
Any advice for me?
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I repost here one of my diary entries
"23.12.2006
I wrote to trueselves forum
Actually I was surprised how my mind works or had worked in order to isolate and deny the presence of my transsexual experience. Instead of agreeing with my needs I had created a bunch of substitutes.
Like what I had with my female cousin. I figured out that I can't be a girl. I was in a pre school age and we used to play together. We both lived in Helsinki and my father and her mother were siblings. My aunt's husband picked me in order to play with my cousin. We played many pretend games. I had heard of the prostate cancer and I processed it in my mind to a play where we had to make one doll into a girl.
I wasn't as pervert you think. I just projected my desire to become myself a girl to that object. I managed to do that till 2004 when I couldn't resist those images of me being a woman anymore. I couldn't make projections any more. I saw a clear vision of me as a woman in a daytime! I was slimmer and definitely a woman in that vision. No bulge etc. Somehow I knew it was the true me.
This transition has been self-acceptance for me. I have had so strong feeling that I need to fit in. And the self-acceptance of being a transsexual hasn't fit in that role. Instead I tried to project it out of me, to something else. To fantasies.
I have gotten rid of fantasies, but I suffer from that projection mechanism in my mind all the time. I can admit that I am a transsexual or I like boys too, but it takes a massive amount of mental energy to break all those barriers in my mind.
For example when I gave up to the idea that I am a woman I still wanted in my mind to keep it somehow part time womanhood. When that was inevitable impossible, I had to admit my whole personality as a woman, but my role as a husband prevailed. And my projection was - the worship of the marriage over a registered partnership (queer marriage). I didn't want to admit that I am a queer and as a woman I cant live in a relationship with a woman otherwise than in a registered partnership.
That has been like a front in a war. Gradually the femininity has broken out but not at the same moment. I needed time and patience in order to find out the restraints in my mind. After I have recognized the I have begun to feel better and more unite. I feel better that I can keep those parts of my identity inside me than trying to fit in something else. But as the prisoners I began to like my prison. I didn't want to change. I had to. But I am satisfied that I began to work with my inner self. That work continues every day.
Heli"
Anon dear
I think you are in a phase called undefined gender identity. It seems to me that most likely you need a therapist to discuss with from the following issues:
1) what do you mean about words "girl" or "boy"
2) you say you would like to be a girl. What prevents you from being one?
3) what are the things or circumstances you like to be a "boy" or a "girl"
4) what prevents you from having a "girlish" style as a "boy"
I use "girl" and "boy" to indicate that these words are defined by you. I found that my "woman" and "man" were actually smoke and mirrors. I realized it in Berlin when I saw that city that had been divided and compartmentalized. We all compartmentalize but my "woman" and "man" were artificial and I had imagined a gender for things that were not actually gendered, e.g. you can be a professional accountant in spite of your gender. So my gender labelling was plastic and arbitrary. I had labelled things like a funny farm case. Actually that makes one's identity to disintegrate and I was detected like that in the official trans investigation in Finland by the psychologist of our national health care system. But after Berlin I realized that I no longer have "zones" but I am an individual. And I tried to find who I really was.
In this search you may benchmark yourself. You might benchmark that you are 100 miles east from a "woman" or 200 miles west from a "crossdresser". That is ok but it is still search of your true self. Once you're home you stop measuring distances.
My only advice is that try to analyze your own perceptions about gendered things and try to find your true self. I know many crossdressers who are satisfied about their life in compartmentalized gender continuum. They have a girl role and a boy role and they from time to time swich their appearance between these roles. I know androgynes too. I am a woman who likes to think antisexist. You and I are individuals, like the billions who inhabit this planet.
Regards
Heli
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120612 is a reply to message #120565 ] |
Wed, 17 November 2010 10:32 |
| Anonymous |
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I'm in Missouri.
I'm not 17. I'm fourteen, actually.
I'm home schooled, and my parents are just a bit.. overprotective, in some aspects. Homeschooling, though, is because of the area I live in.
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120617 is a reply to message #120524 ] |
Wed, 17 November 2010 10:44 |
| Anonymous |
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I told one of my close friends last night, that I felt I was somewhat transgendered, now I know it wasn't very good wording, but still.. Her opinion is that trans genders, transsexuals, ect, are not real, in a way. I don't have any of the exact wording she used, but the overall jist was that boys are born with boy minds, girls are born with girl minds, and you CANNOT be a boy in a girls body, or a boy in a girls body. Very black and white.
This is what I'm afraid every ones reaction will be, or thinking of me as some THING, instead of a person.
Have you had many negative reactions to it?
Also, another question, I've seen many androgynes that say they're 50/50, and that if you aren't that percentage, you aren't an androgyne, well I feel more in touch, and perhaps more of a girl, it could be because I've lived as a girl my whole life, I don't know. I wanna know, if you feel more like one sex, but also feel at times you'd be better off, and happier as the opposite sex, are you still an androgyne?
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120619 is a reply to message #120617 ] |
Wed, 17 November 2010 10:59 |
Katie
Messages: 14644
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| Anonymous wrote on Wed, 17 November 2010 08:44 | I told one of my close friends last night, that I felt I was somewhat transgendered, now I know it wasn't very good wording, but still.. Her opinion is that trans genders, transsexuals, ect, are not real, in a way. I don't have any of the exact wording she used, but the overall jist was that boys are born with boy minds, girls are born with girl minds, and you CANNOT be a boy in a girls body, or a boy in a girls body. Very black and white.
This is what I'm afraid every ones reaction will be, or thinking of me as some THING, instead of a person.
Have you had many negative reactions to it?
Also, another question, I've seen many androgynes that say they're 50/50, and that if you aren't that percentage, you aren't an androgyne, well I feel more in touch, and perhaps more of a girl, it could be because I've lived as a girl my whole life, I don't know. I wanna know, if you feel more like one sex, but also feel at times you'd be better off, and happier as the opposite sex, are you still an androgyne?
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Ah! And now the game gets interesting.
Ann ... we need something to call you. Pick a name, okay? Any name. One that suits who you see yourself as at this present time. Androgynous? Pat? Claire? (At one time, Claire was a boys name.) Jordan?
And now for the fun stuff: Research. You get to educate yourself on all the fundamentals of sex and gender -- and why the two don't necessarily line up. Why? So you'll have a better idea of what's going on inside of you. AND, so you'll have an answer for the sort of point-blank assumptive ignorance you've just been dismissed with.
No. Absolutely not. Balderdash. Being born with a penis does not automatically make you a boy -- and a vagina a girl. That is patently false. Period.
Your first homework assignment is to look up the topic of intersex conditions on-line. Oh! And one you should pay close attention to is CAIS, Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. This is a case where a person with XY chromosomes -- genetically male -- ends up with a vagina and looking like a perfectly normal girl -- although she's not. She'll have no uterus.
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120621 is a reply to message #120619 ] |
Wed, 17 November 2010 11:22 |
| Anonymous |
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[/quote]
Ah! And now the game gets interesting.
Ann ... we need something to call you. Pick a name, okay? Any name. One that suits who you see yourself as at this present time. Androgynous? Pat? Claire? (At one time, Claire was a boys name.) Jordan?
And now for the fun stuff: Research. You get to educate yourself on all the fundamentals of sex and gender -- and why the two don't necessarily line up. Why? So you'll have a better idea of what's going on inside of you. AND, so you'll have an answer for the sort of point-blank assumptive ignorance you've just been dismissed with.
No. Absolutely not. Balderdash. Being born with a penis does not automatically make you a boy -- and a vagina a girl. That is patently false. Period.
Your first homework assignment is to look up the topic of intersex conditions on-line. Oh! And one you should pay close attention to is CAIS, Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. This is a case where a person with XY chromosomes -- genetically male -- ends up with a vagina and looking like a perfectly normal girl -- although she's not. She'll have no uterus.[/quote]
Shadow.
"Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.
Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine"
Quote from a site.. Though more research on my part is definitely needed.
Oh, yes I know. I don't get how people can think that it doesn't exist, when there are people who ARE trans gender! What more proof do you need exactly? That probably sounded very naive, but it's also a bit true.
I will look up all those things. I've been researching this stuff for awhile now..
I also told my boyfriend . . . I actually got a BETTER reaction from him. In a way.
At first he said he didn't think they exist either (sigh) but, the thing was, he didn't know a THING about it.
So.. Now I have to find way to explain it to him, when I can't even completely explain it to myself.
Should be interesting..
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120633 is a reply to message #120626 ] |
Wed, 17 November 2010 13:24 |
| Anonymous |
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Another question, many androgynes say they feel 50 percent one gender, and 50 percent the other.. I wanna know, if you feel more like one gender, but also feel at times you'd be better off, and happier as the opposite gender, are you still an androgyne?
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120642 is a reply to message #120637 ] |
Wed, 17 November 2010 13:47 |
Narcheska 
Messages: 961
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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| Cynthialee wrote on Wed, 17 November 2010 22:27 | I would say so, however that is the call of the individule.
Bigendered would also fit said person.
Dual-gendered, multigender, pangender. The list goes on....
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No wonder that people who don't think about their gender identity get confused.
Shadow, it's very understandable that you want to find a label for what you are feeling. I know I did when I started figuring things out. It's also easier if you want to find and connect with people with the same feelings that you have. However, now I think about this in a different way: "I'm just me."
In my coming-out letter I prepared for work I just noticed that I never wrote "I'm transsexual". I just said I was diagnosed with "gender dysphoria, AKA transsexuality", and explained what the consequences of that are.
Sometimes it's easier to talk about feelings, than actual labels. That's just how I experience it.
I'm glad you found a way to a helpful place! 
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120660 is a reply to message #120637 ] |
Wed, 17 November 2010 16:09 |
| Anonymous |
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| Cynthialee wrote on Wed, 17 November 2010 16:27 | I would say so, however that is the call of the individule.
Bigendered would also fit said person.
Dual-gendered, multigender, pangender. The list goes on....
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from what I've learned, bi-gender or dual-gender seems to fit me..
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120785 is a reply to message #120617 ] |
Thu, 18 November 2010 19:27 |
ZoeB
Messages: 1921
Registered: September 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia |
Senior Member
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| Anonymous wrote on Thu, 18 November 2010 05:44 | I don't have any of the exact wording she used, but the overall jist was that boys are born with boy minds, girls are born with girl minds, and you CANNOT be a boy in a girls body, or a boy in a girls body.
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Your friend's right. You can't - not for very long, anyway. It gets too uncomfy. And there are boy minds and girl minds, they're different...except some minds don't fit either stereotype.
Here's what the experts on the issue say. It's from Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35 :
| Quote: | The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.
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They over-simplify a bit, but close enough.
The only person who can tell who or what you are is you. No-one else. Certainly, most of those who end up having to transition were aware of it from an early age, and were pretty definite about it long before age 14. Most.... but not all.
I think you do need to see a gender expert, a psych on this issue. But most psychs are clueless, you really need to find a competent specialist to help you discover who you are, and what you should do. There is no "one size fits all", and what is good for one may be a disaster for someone else.
We'll help as much as we can.
Hugs from the Zoe of Oz (who's in New Orleans until Saturday 0700)
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #120901 is a reply to message #120683 ] |
Fri, 19 November 2010 20:34 |
| Anonymous |
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| Sevan wrote on Wed, 17 November 2010 21:39 | Oh most DEFINITLY possible to be androgyn/bigender/genderqueer/third gender (the list really does go on and on...) without being a perfect %50-%50. I can't even say what "percentage" I am. It's just not something I've cosidered. I tried...but found it ellusive.
I know I like skirts (why should they be considered "feminine" though? Why? How on earth are clothes male or female. If you can truely answer me that...well...you'll be onto something.)
I also like mens jeans.
I suppose I like skirts MORE than mens jeans...
but I also REALLY like my developing beard. REALLY.
%50-%50? Not likely. Though I couldn't tell you what I am instead. I was lucky enough just to find the word androgyn!! No need for me to parse it down further.
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Ok. I was just wondering, because I feel more like a girl, but then at times, I just CANNOT shake the feeling of wanting to be a guy. It frustrates me. I hate it because it won't go away, I have a transgender friend who thinks he's a freak of nature, I've been trying to convince him otherwise while thinking the thing about myself.
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #121181 is a reply to message #120524 ] |
Mon, 22 November 2010 07:10 |
Diana
Messages: 1089
Registered: October 2007
Location: Colorado |
Senior Member
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Hi Shadow,
I'd like to welcome you to our world. It's like a world within a world. It's a world with many variations. There are countless variations within this world, with none being better or worse than the other. It's a world that many can't understand unless they have one form or another of a variation of our condition, but that doesn't mean they can't be educated.
I want to caution you that during adolescence, it can be a very confusing time of your life, let alone throwing this into the mix. I truly understand the weight your caring on your shoulders, but adolescence is also the time that your truly searching out who you really are. I am an educator of diversity within our society and want you to realize first, it's ok to be different from the norms of society. Second, as hard as it might seem, I want you to take your time and do your research, you have a good start with the information provided above. Third, I want you to start educating everyone in your life, but be very subtle with your approach, for example: If there's a good documentary on T.V. turn it on, watch it or have it in the background and you might make a comment of how interesting it is. There are several out there, one I like to use is done by National Geographic Explorer called Sex, Lies and Gender. National Geographic everyone knows, and has spent approx. 60 yrs. building their reputation and credibility based on facts. Many that won't pay attention to other shows will watch this one.
Believe me, when I say we do understand your situation. I agree you need to get in touch with a gender therapist, but not just anyone, but one that understands adolescence. I'm not in your part of the country, but do know of one that would probably talk to you over the phone and help match you up with one in your part of the country. She is very good with the young as well as family and religious issues. She may have ideas that may help you with your parents. Being an educator, I'm contacted on a regular basis by school counselor's for referrals, so it's my job to know the therapist and who they work well with. If your interested please contact an administrator or moderator of this site and I can pass the information on.
I don't want to overload you, and hope I have given you some ideas to help you. I will continue to monitor this thread so please feel free to continue to ask your questions for there is a wealth of information to be found from the membership right here. I am also including a link to a blog I gave my doctor permission to write in the best interest of educating.
http://doctorcannon.wordpress.com/2009/03/21/free-from-sexua l-secrets/
Edited for spelling
[Updated on: Mon, 22 November 2010 08:44]
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #121365 is a reply to message #121073 ] |
Tue, 23 November 2010 07:21 |
| Anonymous |
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I'm sorry that some of you found my post upsetting ..I however don't feel I (attacked) as you put it anyone What I did was offer a reasonable solution to O/P problem based on the information that was given by the O/P. The fact that every time I post an opinion a bunch of you go off on me is in my opinion a reflection of your own insecurities....... You really need to get a grip. AS for my continued membership on this site I could care less either way. My life is far more mainstream I have far to much going to be chained to or dependant on this sight like some of you are. If this should be my last post then I wish you well and remember to relax and don't take things seriously .... 100 yrs from now it won't even be important.
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #121374 is a reply to message #120524 ] |
Tue, 23 November 2010 09:00 |
Narcheska
Messages: 961
Registered: October 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Language usage is very critical in how you get your message across, especially on the internet. The line between making a suggestion and simply telling someone what to do is very thin in any written language.
So maybe it's just a misinterpretation of your words, which came across as very insulting and simply attacking the freedom of a person. On top of that of a confused teenager. Honestly, it's not about our insecurities, it's about respect for the way another person feels.
And you do have a tendency of confusing your own thoughts with stated facts...
[Updated on: Tue, 23 November 2010 09:00]
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| Re: So Confused. Need help. [message #121406 is a reply to message #120524 ] |
Tue, 23 November 2010 15:55 |
Diana
Messages: 1089
Registered: October 2007
Location: Colorado |
Senior Member
BL3D
BLF Moderator |
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Good evening Brandi,
I'm very pleased to see your post, and for what it's worth, I accept your apology. Maybe you are right that this won't be important in 100yrs, but then again maybe you're wrong, since history has yet to play itself out.
Narcheska, has made some very valid points here. What I would like to ask of you is to please re-read her post again, really look at what she's saying, and then take it to heart. It can only help you, not hurt you. In your own words you say that every time you post an opinion everyone goes off on you. Well, maybe just maybe that should tell you something, the next time it happens why don't you take a minute and instead of getting defensive, try to analyze the situation from the other side as well, you might discover your communication skills can be improved upon. I can assure you there is no conspiracy against you. There's a right way and a wrong way in communicating. It all comes down to respect, and when you fail to communicate respect to others then don't expect respect in return.
You make the claim that you could careless one way or the other about your membership, but I will disagree with you on this one. If you didn't care, you would never had made this post. I do hope to see you back on the inside boards. I hope you make the right choice for you!
[Updated on: Tue, 23 November 2010 16:05]
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I think I'm going to definitely join the site. 
Oh do I understand that. My darling wife is Cynthia Lee who's been posting to this thread. She started her transition and I was in full support of her. Urging her on to be her true self. 
