Home » Public » New Beginnings » Help with poll
|
| Re: Help with poll [message #44547 is a reply to message #44545 ] |
Tue, 11 November 2008 20:34   |
Derrie 
Messages: 21526
Registered: October 2007 |
Senior Member
BL3D
Chief Instigator
First Officer |
|
|
Selfish?
What if you are an only child?
Is selfish a Bad thing?
Allie? What's your take on this?
[Updated on: Wed, 12 November 2008 13:33]
|
|
| | | |
| Re: Help with poll [message #44604 is a reply to message #44581 ] |
Wed, 12 November 2008 15:47 |
alliebnorth
Messages: 608
Registered: April 2008 |
Senior Member |
|
|
|
No Message Body
[Updated on: Sun, 16 November 2008 18:20]
|
|
| |
| Re: Help with poll [message #44613 is a reply to message #44608 ] |
Wed, 12 November 2008 17:40 |
| Anonymous |
|
|
|
I think I like the answer Jane gave. Until I finally alowed myself to transition and avoid death, I'd say I spent the rest of my life doing nothing but giving to others.
Is saving your life a selfish act?
|
|
|
| Re: Help with poll [message #68386 is a reply to message #44545 ] |
Thu, 24 September 2009 22:56 |
 LanieB
Messages: 462
Registered: August 2008
Location: Florida |
Senior Member
BL3d |
|
|
This is an interesting question. I like it. Here's my take on this as a GG SO of a TS.
My TS SO is the best person I know. That's why we're still together. "His" trying to be "normal," by marrying me 19 years ago is a misguided act of selflessness. Certainly I did not ask and would not ask anyone, no matter how wonderful they were, to lie to me and to pretend for DECADES to be someone they are not. Deciding to marry someone because they will "fix" you because you love them so much is EXTREMELY SELFISH and hurtful and a breech of trust. (I'm opening up wounds here for you to consider. This is painful to even talk about.)
Let's set that aside. Let's talk about taking drugs, all kinds of drugs, unregulated drugs, based on the advice, sad to say of some amateurs on this very website. Not telling me was selfish. Nearly killing herself EVEN AFTER I got her to go to a real doctor (because what does the doctor know about dosage?) is selfish in the extreme. It is the ultimate selfishness.
And then, once she got on hormones and started following the instructions, she re-entered puberty. Let's not kid ourselves, all pubescent humans are selfish, selfish, selfish. That was painful. So painful that we had to go to the endocrinologist together and I had to tell her that while I understood that my husband was her patient, she needed to understand that she was actually treating a family. The endo cut back on the dosage, and Shelly abided by it for a couple of weeks, maybe three. Then she upped it again herself. Yes, that is selfish. Seriously, she could not not talk about herself. Around the same time as she upped her dosage again, I asked her to move out for a couple of weeks because I could not take the selfishness, narcissism, and complete and utter inability to give anything to the relationship. Even then, when we agreed to meet for dinner, she could not get through the first few minutes without talking about herself. The stated purpose of the dinner was for us to talk about ME and for her not to talk about herself.
Well, heck, B*@)#, why did you stay with her after all that? Here's my answer: Love is not enough. Love helps, but it is not enough. It would not have been possible for us to stay together without the amazing, patient, caring advice of Shelly's mentor, a woman from BL who watched and waited until she was sure Michelle was for real, and then offered to be her mentor. And she always said and always meant it, that she was there for me too. In the midst of one TG woman's extremely selfish "stage" if you want to call it that, was a TG woman showing extreme selflessness. And then there was the genuine empathic support from the women on BL. Some of you responded openly. Some of you PM'd me. I looked to you for support and I got it. I got more support from the transsexual community than you can imagine.
Another thing that helped through these times was a commitment to the belief that all I had to do was today. Just today. One day at a time is a very good way to live in general. And a strong belief in a higher power. Good friends, psychotropic medication. Well, I don't know the exact formula. If I knew I'd package it. But I do hope that by sharing on this forum, together, we can make it easier for each other.
Is it selfish to save your life? Of course not. It is self-care. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm glad I didn't know what I was in for. I wouldn't have stayed. But now things have settled down a bit. I'm only talking about the last couple of weeks here. And I have hope that we will be able to get back to where we were before this whole thing started...friends, lovers and the happiest couple all our friends and family ever knew. Stay tuned. Oh, and think seriously about mentoring someone else new to the site. Be a mentor who has a mentor.
Love and tiredness,
Lanie
|
|
|
| Re: Help with poll [message #68432 is a reply to message #44545 ] |
Fri, 25 September 2009 10:36 |
April221
Messages: 587
Registered: October 2007
Location: New York City |
Senior Member
BL3D |
|
|
|
No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 16 October 2009 19:27]
|
|
| |
| Re: Help with poll [message #68465 is a reply to message #68386 ] |
Fri, 25 September 2009 17:20 |
ZoeB 
Messages: 1921
Registered: September 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia |
Senior Member
@ |
|
|
| LanieB wrote on Fri, 25 September 2009 15:56 | Deciding to marry someone because they will "fix" you because you love them so much is EXTREMELY SELFISH and hurtful and a breech of trust
|
Yes.
You don't realise it at the time though. You marry because you love them, not to "get fixed". Your own issues are the furthest thing from your mind. You think you can live with it. Or at least, I did. You don't realise it doesn't get better over time, but worse.
Had I realised... I think I'd be dead by now. Transition wasn't possible in Australia back then, not for those like me. We didn't fit the "Doris Day" stereotype, neither in personality nor build, and that was mandatory in those days - was until about 10 years ago, in fact. You had to not just be female, but feminine, in personality and in looks. Sexy, in fact.
Living as life of loneliness without transition would, I think, have been impossible for me. I wouldn't have suicided, not overtly, but I would have found something worth dying for.
| Quote: | And I have hope that we will be able to get back to where we were before this whole thing started...friends, lovers and the happiest couple all our friends and family ever knew.
|
Please do, for me. I love happy endings.
HUGS from the Zoe of Oz
|
|
|
| Re: Help with poll [message #68484 is a reply to message #68465 ] |
Fri, 25 September 2009 20:27 |
LanieB
Messages: 462
Registered: August 2008
Location: Florida |
Senior Member
BL3d |
|
|
Zoe dear,
Thank you for your thoughtful response.
<snip>Transition wasn't possible in Australia back then, not for those like me. We didn't fit the "Doris Day" stereotype, neither in personality nor build, and that was mandatory in those days - was until about 10 years ago, in fact. You had to not just be female, but feminine, in personality and in looks. Sexy, in fact.
<snip>
I just found out about that from Wendy. Well, I'm glad Shelly didn't have to go through that. How many TS women do you suppose those well-meaning professionals doomed to suicide?
I'm so glad you are still with us on this earth, Zoe!
Smiles,
Lanie
|
|
| |
| Re: Help with poll [message #68606 is a reply to message #68484 ] |
Sat, 26 September 2009 19:42 |
Wendy C
Messages: 4340
Registered: October 2007
Location: Gateway to the West |
Senior Member
BL3D |
|
|
Wikipedia defines selfishnes as:
| Quote: | Selfishness denotes the precedence given in thought or deed to the self, i.e., self interest or self concern. It is the act of placing one's own needs or desires above the needs or desires of others. Selfishness is the opposite of altruism (selflessness).
|
I suppose when it comes to actually transitioning, we TS's could be defined as being selfish by others. The act of transitioning by its very nature is rather one sided. Yet it is an act driven by survival. The angst involved is terrible, no less than a disease, it destroys from within the mind. It is insistent and incessant all rolled into one.
Yes, I faced what many others refer to. There was selective screening done. For my part I was left with a literal do or die situation. Tried to do both, truth be known. I turned to trying to be the "man", have a family, do what was perceived as being right by Society and almost succeeded.
In in the end after all my trying and doing for my family, I was still faced with over riding inner angst that has allowed me to transition but has destroyed almost all I had worked for. Was I selfish? Its kind of like asking me if I would rather have just died at birth.
If one gives it their all and sincerely tries to be selfless or altruistic than how can you be judged selfish? I voted no by the way. Just my humble 2 cents worth.
~Wendy~
|
|
| | |
| Re: Help with poll [message #68634 is a reply to message #68616 ] |
Sun, 27 September 2009 07:22 |
Wendy C
Messages: 4340
Registered: October 2007
Location: Gateway to the West |
Senior Member
BL3D |
|
|
| Quote: | Not transitioning is the epitome of selfishness. We don't transition for selfish reasons: spouse, family, job, etc., and the payoff is pitiful.
|
Personally I think that is over characterizing the issue. I left my first marriage after 13 years, GID had reared its head, I was refused transition but still stayed in the marriage for several years after. While GID played a part in my thoughts for sure, it was not the only reason I left, I departed amicably leaving all they needed to provide for themselves taking nothing with me. I continued to fill my Court and other obligations as a father faithfully.
My adult sons were never exposed to my GID until about two years ago. They have shunned me, refusing to communicate. Was I being selfish in how I always treated them with love and respect? My step daughters have been gracious in their view of this. They realize the contributions and sacrifices I have made and try to balance that with their love for their mother and worry for her.
While I do not deny this hurts the loving spouse immensely and they did not deserve our silence, I'm still of the belief that I had made extraordinary efforts to counter the effects of GID in order to be a loving husband and father. Would you call someone with other Psychosis's selfish, or some other gene influenced trait?
I feel guilt in that I have caused my present wife of 25 years much grief and pain. I still never shunned my obligations and have always tried to provide the best possible life I could make for all my family. Still, I did not ask to be transsexual. I tried to do the best I could with what I have been given at birth.
I cannot for the life of me equate that with selfishness no more than any other birth defect one can be graced with. 
~Wendy~
|
|
|
| Re: Help with poll [message #68722 is a reply to message #68634 ] |
Mon, 28 September 2009 10:47 |
Jamie
Messages: 1900
Registered: October 2007 |
Senior Member
BL3d |
|
|
| Wendy C wrote on Sun, 27 September 2009 10:22 |
While I do not deny this hurts the loving spouse immensely and they did not deserve our silence, I'm still of the belief that I had made extraordinary efforts to counter the effects of GID in order to be a loving husband and father.
|
How'd that work for you?
| Quote: |
Would you call someone with other Psychosis's selfish, or some other gene influenced trait?
|
I did not say you were selfish for having GID. What I said was, "Not transitioning is the epitome of selfishness. We don't transition for selfish reasons: spouse, family, job, etc., and the payoff is pitiful."
If a schizophrenic person refused to take his or her prescribed medications, would that refusal be for selfish reasons, or for the good of others?
If a manic-depressive person refused to take his or her prescribed medications, would that refusal be for selfish reasons, or for the good of others?
If a diabetic refused to take his or her prescribed medications, would that refusal be for selfish reasons, or for the good of others?
If a person with GID refused to transition (the only known cure for GID), would that refusal be for selfish reasons, or for the good of others?
| Quote: |
I feel guilt in that I have caused my present wife of 25 years much grief and pain.
|
Just be thankful she never caused you any grief or pain during those 25 years.
| Quote: |
I still never shunned my obligations and have always tried to provide the best possible life I could make for all my family.
|
Good girl. I never suggested you should do less. What I said was, "Not transitioning is the epitome of selfishness. We don't transition for selfish reasons: spouse, family, job, etc., and the payoff is pitiful."
| Quote: |
Still, I did not ask to be transsexual. I tried to do the best I could with what I have been given at birth.
|
Don't we all?
| Quote: |
I cannot for the life of me equate that with selfishness no more than any other birth defect one can be graced with.
|
I did not say that having a birth defect was selfish. What I said was, "Not transitioning is the epitome of selfishness. We don't transition for selfish reasons: spouse, family, job, etc., and the payoff is pitiful."
Jamie
[Updated on: Tue, 29 September 2009 01:55]
|
|
| |
| Re: Help with poll [message #68730 is a reply to message #68724 ] |
Mon, 28 September 2009 13:24 |
Jamie
Messages: 1900
Registered: October 2007 |
Senior Member
BL3d |
|
|
| Dharla wrote on Mon, 28 September 2009 14:43 |
ummmmm............Wendy, I think you may have misunderstood Jamie's remark............I did too at first. The FIRST part of the quote was clear to me~
| Quote: |
"Not transitioning is the epitome of selfishness.
|
The second part confused me~
| Quote: |
We don't transition for selfish reasons: spouse, family, job, etc., and the payoff is pitiful."
|
I took it the wrong way.....thinking that Jamie had said that transitioning wasn't worth it. Rereading it a few times I understood what she meant.
|
Maybe I should have said it differently. We don't transition for selfish reasons such as the possibility of losing a spouse, family, friends, or a job rather than considering the consequences of inflicting our GID problem upon them. My experience has been that GID can be painful to all concerned.
I think that persons with GID should step up to the plate and assume responsibility for resolving the problem rather than trying to assuage their dysphoria by saying they can't transition for the good of others.
I've known at least one person who has posted on the New Beginnings forum who suffers from this delusion, and it breaks my heart. I have followed her postings for years and talked with her on the phone several times. But you can't help someone who won't help themselves. So I'm sad and angry at her.
Jamie
|
|
| |
| Re: Help with poll [message #68751 is a reply to message #68734 ] |
Mon, 28 September 2009 18:34 |
Wendy C
Messages: 4340
Registered: October 2007
Location: Gateway to the West |
Senior Member
BL3D |
|
|
Jamie, maybe your life circumstances were somewhat different, you are entitled to your view on this and it is a right conclusion for you.
I also posted:
| Quote: | I was refused transition but still stayed in the marriage for several years after.
|
This was a different time, and place for me. I did not have the luxury of the internet, connections, a way to accomplish what I sought out back then. I simply had no recourse but to try and be a productive member of society. Had I the means or the knowledge, of course I would have followed through. It was a horrible experience and I wont go into details out here.
I simply did the best I could and I really still cannot feel I was selfish for not transitioning. I have devoted my whole life to serving others in many areas, not just familial, never asked really anything in turn.
I'm not a martyr, I try not to toot my own horn too loud, I'm just Wendy and I'd bet there or others that went through as much as I and that they feel the same.
While we all share similarities, but there are differences.
~Wendy~
|
|
| |
| Re: Help with poll [message #68754 is a reply to message #68751 ] |
Mon, 28 September 2009 18:59 |
Hilary 
Messages: 5534
Registered: October 2007
Location: 2, Camberwick Green, Trum... |
Senior Member
BL Administrator (Retired)
BL3d |
|
|
In my humble opinion, transition starts when the pain of dysphoria outweighs the pain of not transitioning, including commitments to family, and the fear of social ridicule, loss of job, house, etc
It is unique to each of us. Our transition is unique to each of us, the basics are similar.
Wendy, like you, I was denied a chance to transition. Our family was Catholic, with no knowledge of sex at all. We used to say our parents never had sex, life was created in a Petrie dish!
Our school was Catholic - there was no sex education, the library contained absolutely nothing, except religious catholic dogma; ie boy meets girl, and that dealt with moral, rather than medical events.
There was no chance to meet or talk to anybody beyond the catholic fraternity.
We were the only catholic family in our otherwise Protestant Village; they went to the local school, we went to the catholic school in town. Our parents assumed they were doing the right thing by sending us there. Of course, we never mixed with the locals.
Yes, even then, pre-internet days, it was possible to suffer, but be totally ignorant of GID.
For me, then ignorance ended with reaching this place, and realizing I was not alone.
|
|
|
| Re: Help with poll [message #69011 is a reply to message #68465 ] |
Wed, 30 September 2009 19:07 |
LanieB
Messages: 462
Registered: August 2008
Location: Florida |
Senior Member
BL3d |
|
|
| ZoeB wrote on Fri, 25 September 2009 20:20 | | LanieB wrote on Fri, 25 September 2009 15:56 | Deciding to marry someone because they will "fix" you because you love them so much is EXTREMELY SELFISH and hurtful and a breech of trust
|
Yes.
You don't realise it at the time though. You marry because you love them, not to "get fixed". Your own issues are the furthest thing from your mind. You think you can live with it.
That's why I am able to forgive. It wasn't intentionally dishonest towards me, but towards herself.
| Quote: | And I have hope that we will be able to get back to where we were before this whole thing started...friends, lovers and the happiest couple all our friends and family ever knew.
|
Here's the problem I just realized with that statement. It is full of pride, the bad kind of pride. What do I care what others think? People envying us is just other people not living their own lives to the fullest. It's a kind of sad thing, really. The rest of it I choose to have (one day at a time)...friends, lovers, hapiness.
Living as life of loneliness without transition would, I think, have been impossible for me. I wouldn't have suicided, not overtly, but I would have found something worth dying for.
I can relate to that.
Please do, for me. I love happy endings.
(Smile and a hug.) We're trying. Lots of rebuilding. Work, work, work.
Lanie
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sat May 19 18:32:35 PDT 2012
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02167 seconds
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
2 / 15%
OK....at least your have your priorities in order. 
(unless she outlives me!!! 
)
Did I say that? 
