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[quote title=Anonymous wrote on Wed, 30 January 2008 06:21]I mentally hamstrung myself. I disassociated my self and became functionally schizophrenic. I developed a mild case of petite mal and zoned out. No need for drugs for me dudette, I was already flying high in my own dream state. It wasn't till high school that I settled down and rejoined the human collective. Never fit in mind you, because during my formative years I avoided the crowd and never developed those social skills needed to cope in High School. That made me even more in need of singularly being out standing in my field.

All coping mechanisms I think have a tendency toward trade offs. Mine were more severe than most. But, I managed. The main point of this was although I desperately wanted to be female, I bought into the whole "You can grow out of it" thing encouraged of course by family and the social peer pressure exerted upon an unsatisfied mind. I was successful with it by the simple expediency of not relating to either camp, but "take the road less traveled by." Heck of a lot of brambles on that road though.

To be honest, I would never have transitioned at all if I hadn't been subjected to a forced eviction from my music career. I had acquired the skills necessary to fail quite well, and was steadily making progress in that direction. Oddly enough, It was also a conjunction of religion that also put me on the path to transition. After an intense subjection to biblical teachings, the quest for truth in my life took on epic proportions. It was this desire to get myself right with myself that pushed the "Get it done" button.

Now then, note that this missive is being posted Anon, not because I am afraid to mention my name (Don't worry, the surprise revelation will occur shortly), but because once again this "thinking man's auxiliary" is forcing my hand once again.

So there you have it, a short exposition on coping with reality. The only trouble is, if you don't cope with reality, you have to cope with it's counterpart.

Libbie[/quote]

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Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 30 January 2008 06:21

Anonymous

I mentally hamstrung myself. I disassociated my self and became functionally schizophrenic. I developed a mild case of petite mal and zoned out. No need for drugs for me dudette, I was already flying high in my own dream state. It wasn't till high school that I settled down and rejoined the human collective. Never fit in mind you, because during my formative years I avoided the crowd and never developed those social skills needed to cope in High School. That made me even more in need of singularly being out standing in my field.

All coping mechanisms I think have a tendency toward trade offs. Mine were more severe than most. But, I managed. The main point of this was although I desperately wanted to be female, I bought into the whole "You can grow out of it" thing encouraged of course by family and the social peer pressure exerted upon an unsatisfied mind. I was successful with it by the simple expediency of not relating to either camp, but "take the road less traveled by." Heck of a lot of brambles on that road though.

To be honest, I would never have transitioned at all if I hadn't been subjected to a forced eviction from my music career. I had acquired the skills necessary to fail quite well, and was steadily making progress in that direction. Oddly enough, It was also a conjunction of religion that also put me on the path to transition. After an intense subjection to biblical teachings, the quest for truth in my life took on epic proportions. It was this desire to get myself right with myself that pushed the "Get it done" button.

Now then, note that this missive is being posted Anon, not because I am afraid to mention my name (Don't worry, the surprise revelation will occur shortly), but because once again this "thinking man's auxiliary" is forcing my hand once again.

So there you have it, a short exposition on coping with reality. The only trouble is, if you don't cope with reality, you have to cope with it's counterpart.

Libbie

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 30 January 2008 07:51

Rebekah

I was raised in a "phobic" everything culture. In my youth there was no knowledge, Internet, networking, etc available to me. I thought at some level I was crazy; no small thing when the state's mental institution was in my home town. And of course there was the "God" thing.

Complete suppression worked for most of my life. My true self almost got out of my "control" for a short time when I was in college. I responded with about 20 tons of re-bar reinforced concrete. Even so, things would leak out occasionally, until I reached 60. The fatigue (at all levels) of suppressing/repressing myself was just too much - I just couldn't hold it in any longer. And of course, the cultural climate was vastly different.

So, what worked for all those years? Discipline and an iron will based on stark fear of what others might thing of me and all the real (and not so real) consequences of revelation. Fear and dissociation, that was it. Consolation? Not on my path. R

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 30 January 2008 08:32

CarolynnL

I was born and raised in small town environments. You should understand I am a failed F2M. I was born with mixed genitalia, and surgically "corrected" through two surgeries, the first when I was a few days old, the other just after I passed my 5th birthday. My preferred playmates were girls, and I would leave a group of boys to play with girl friends at every opportunity, though the school pushed me toward the boys. From third grade on, I learned that I would no longer be allowed to play with the peer group that my natural orientation pushed me toward, often being sort of forced to play boy's sports instead. I did not like those games, and was lousy at them, and rapidly came to be the last chosen, and then I could sort of slip away and not be missed.

My escape in the early years was books, and I would escape into those stories soooo completely that my name could be called several times and I would not respond until I was nudged by someone. I put on a mask, told jokes when I had to be in company of others, and smiled a lot. I was not happy very often, but I could find enjoyment in day to day activities. My friends were nerds, often with abilities in math that I did not share, but it was possible to be friends with them.

When I couldn't read, I gazed out the window and daydreamed. During my early teens, a Doctor decreed I should be on testosterone to counteract a tendency to grow breasts, for some strange reason. The emotional and to me physical pain, from that experience over the next 16 months took away even my ability to derive enjoyment from books, though I still read, or at least stared at the pages. My grades went to the toilet, I became more withdrawn, and I eventually set up conditions that would allow me to end the pain. That was thwarted, and I simply refused to ever set foot in that Dr.s office ever again, and stopped the T shots.

Without the excess T, I gradually felt better again, and again found enjoyment in some things, including working around people. I discovered that on at least a superficial level I could talk to people and leave a positive impression, usually by encouraging them to talk about themselves and really listening. That I could do that throughout my adult life, despite periods of depression on an almost monthly basis, enabled me to live an excessively long time with my "secret", finally hitting my "wall" in my late 50's. Until then, I would be depressed, fight it out castigating myself for not being "strong" enough to be who I was supposed to be, and push myself into a form of denial and go on. Year after year, after year. I did find enjoyment in life, some satisfaction in my work, and some adult nerds that didn't care if I was different, 'cause they were too. I think that was why I kept going until I just couldn't go any more.

Love, Carolynn

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 30 January 2008 09:20

Anonymous

CarolynnL wrote on Wed, 30 January 2008 11:32

This doesn't make any sense. You were female, and you attempted to transition to male, but failed? How? So you were female bodied and lived a female narrative during the rest of your 50+ years?

How does being intersex make you a failed FTM? IS your karotype XX or something else? What surgeries were performed, and what was corrected?

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 30 January 2008 16:01

CarolynnL

Anonymous, I had no choice in the matter. I was adjudged by a midwife to be female at my birth, and became a physician created male shortly after my birth. Thus I say am a failed F2M though it may not be correct, but at least from a medical standpoint I was made "male". In spite of the surgery at my birth and later chemically aided development, I have never been male.

It was between my parents and the doctor that took care of our family, and it was 1942. My father was drafted and going to WWII, and he wanted a son. The doctor said it didn't matter in my case, he could "fix" me either way because of how I was born, and they chose for me to be a sociological male. That information comes from family letters, and a rough draft, hand written birth certificate that was filled out in the name Carolynn May by the midwife attending my mother. As was not unusual at the time, I was born at home with no doctor in attendance, not in a hospital.

Dr. Joyce told my parents it was how I was raised that was important, that in cases like mine, nurture, not nature made the person, a common school of thought in some medical circles even today. So, the choice of surgery, and the birth certificate filed a month later listed me as male. That happens to be the same school of thought that caused Dr. John Money to besmirch his professional reputation and destroy the lives of a family 30+ years ago with the John/Joan tradgedy.

I don't know all the details of the first surgery. Being a few days old I was largely unaware, naturally. I think, from correspondence between my aunt and her childhood friend, that there was at least hypospadia that required the 1st surgery. She just said in the letter I didn't pee from the right place, and I had to be operated on.

There was scar tissue, at least, that had to be "released" as the reason for the second surgery, as I could not stand up to urinate like my cousins could until well after that surgery. Then I dribbled drops down my clothes so that sitting was still better. That second surgery I remember portions of. And my disappointment with the red, sore worm I peed from. I was sure I would be a girl after the surgery. I was left with an apparently "circumcised", pretty much micro penis that does not get erect and lacks sensitivity, and some apparent and underdeveloped testicles in a small bag I have been told should be removed for medical reasons. I have always been sterile, and asexual in orientation.

I have been told I have Persistent Mullerian Duct Syndrome (PMDS) with under developed male and female organs, which is generally considered an IS condition. That from an ultrasound exam in 1996 while a doctor was trying to find what was causing abdominal pain similar to - but not - a kidney stone. He recommended I have those not so complete organs removed to avoid the threat of cancer, but I haven't. At that point in my life of gender conflict, their presence seemed a weird sort of validation for how I felt about myself. I do have a prostate gland, that when pressed during a physical exam often secrets a clear liquid.

And after 16 months on damned Testosterone in my teens, I can well guarantee you I am more male bodied than female though I would wish it not so. I gained 10 inches and 60 lbs. during that 16 very painful months, and I have broad shoulders and a broad chest that I would trade out in a heartbeat.

I have not had a genetic karotype assessment. My endocrinologist has stated that in her experience it would probably show as xxy based on blood tests and free hormone levels when I started HRT, coupled with the PMDS. She is treating me as IS and watching my blood work for problems common to the condition. On the other hand, most of my symptoms are covered by the description of the PMDS, so I am not sure I have to be xxy anymore. That doesn't explain why I have felt that I am female from about the age of three, but maybe that's just part of what makes people TS. Overall, I seem to be pretty screwed up.

At this point, I really don't care to spend the money on karotyping, as it is not covered by my insurance. I just want what I feel is the correction denied me 65 years ago and get on with what life is left to me.

Does that satisfy your curiosity?? I have to admit that it both pisses me off to discuss this, and brings me to tears that may be anger, regret or loss. I feel deep sadness that I have only in the last 11 years come to some understanding why I may be as I am, and I still don't know if I know the full story. And I am conflicted between anger at my parents and Dr. Joyce for their decision, though I know the doctor to have been a good man and doctor for his time, anger at the wall of silence from my parents and relatives when I started asking questions, struggling to forgive by recognizing the limitations of knowledge of the time, and plain old grief for what might have been.

Carolynn

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 30 January 2008 18:55

laura

I was born in small, small town Kansas in the late 1940's. I always knew that I was a girl, but quickly realized that I had to hide this. My earliest friends were always girls; I longed to be involved in their activities, but after I got beat up a few times, called a bunch of names, I started playing the role. That continued. I was constantly depressed, unhappy, and looking for things, jobs, or people to make me happy. Of course this didn't work.

It wasn't until my kids were out on their own that I realized it was finally time to do something for myself. I finally had internet access and started finding information about transition. At first, it was inaccurate and mostly porn, but gradually, I found accurate and helpful sites.

I began transition at the age of 54 and have never looked back. These have been the best years of my life.

All of my kids and my sister have told me that they knew something deep and hidden was bothering me, but could never figure out what it was. Now they know. They love and like Laura much better than they ever did him. They see how happy I am, how much fun, bubbly, and alive I am now and have fully accepted me.

Life is so good.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 30 January 2008 19:04

laura

Carolynn, your post made me sad. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

When I got out of high school, I went to school to learn to be an x-ray technologist. This was in the late 60's. While there I became friends with a pediatric radiologist. I helped him do some diagnostic procedures on children born with ambigious genitalia. It fascinated me, though I didn't understand why at the time.

When I asked about the treatment of these kids, I was told that they made them all girls and raised them as such, because it was easier surgery and there wasn't a good way to make boy parts. There was never any consideration given to who these kids were inside.

Since then, I've often wondered about those kids....how many of them are happy with the choice made for them.

Such things as this were a part of the reason I eventually went to med school.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 30 January 2008 19:09

Wendy C

I feel so much like every thing I will say is plagiarism as so much of what I have been reading here seems stereotypical. When I first decided to seek transition after my first 30 years of confusion and yearning, I was denied it due to a very controlled pick and choose the best candidate mentality. Subsequently placed on psychotropic drugs, attempted suicide for the second time and placed in a mental institution for awhile until I learned to do just what "they wanted".

As I was married to my first wife and two small sons, one more to come later, I tried to make that work. I couldn't compete with her as a woman and eventually divorced when it just became too hard.

Remarried a woman with three daughters and pretty much lived my dreams through their lives even though I went through alcoholism, and in 1985 attempted suicide again. My wife and I are still together yet at 22 years.

The GID has never gone away, and I built barricades and walls to suppress it as best I could, sometimes winning a battle but losing the war in the end. Iron will as Rebekah mentioned or plain stupidity, lack of knowledge without the Internet as she also mentioned. I just got tired of fighting myself and facing the every day prospect of depression and anxiety. I will be 61 in 17 days. I have been actively transitioning for six months and have been on hormones for 4 months. While it is not easy, I do not miss the old me.

Hugs and Love

Wendy C

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 30 January 2008 19:19

laura

Gina, I used my kids, my wife, my work, and my hobbies to keep my occupied enough that I didn't blow my brains out. Even then, it was very, very close many times.

I had a close friend die of a heart attack at age 50 without warning. It dawned on me that if I didn't do what I had to do, I was going to follow in his footsteps. Since my kids were out on their own, my parents gone, I finally had no one I had to be responsible for, except my wife. But I knew I had to do this and prayed she'd find a way to stick with me, which was not to be, though we are friends.

Within a week after my friend died, I had an appointment with a therapist who understood GID and never looked back.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Thu, 31 January 2008 00:08

carolgee

Hi,

Carolgee's spending the night with Barb and I so I'm using her log in to post this.

In my case, I had pretty much figured out that I was a girl in a boy's body by age 7. I tried to talk it out with my mother, but at the time I had no real understanding about gender v sex and the answers I got back were that people would think I was queer, which I had no idea what that was, but it had to be bad! In other words, do not discuss this with anyone!

A bit later on, in the third grade, I had one of the worse teachers that was ever unleashed on children with any type of difficulty. She asked why I was hesitant to play things like baseball, basketball and the like and I told her that it wasn't the things that girls did. This wound up with me being interviewed by the school district's child psychologist. This guy literally scared the sh*t out of me and there was talk of sending me to a special school for children with "mental problems" - which was basically a mental hospital. This was a live-in facility and I learned that it was better to shut up and go along with the program than to buck the system.

By this time, I was branded a "trouble maker" as I was constantly being hounded, harassed and abused by my peers at recesses, on the way to school and on the way home. My "peers" had spotted the fact that I was different and sort of made me the target of special attention. The teachers that monitored recesses never saw me being hit, just me hitting back. I spent a lot of time in the principle's office and in detention. Weird, considering that I was a very capable student in most ways. I loved class time, but hated recess as this was the time where I was constantly getting taunted, abused and bashed.

Things got progressively worse through the rest of my education and I dropped out of high school 4 weeks into my senior year. I started cross dressing in 1967 and was spotted with a girlfriend by some of the jocks from my high school. After that the harassment was absolutely horrible, making it impossible for me to function at school. I went to night school, started at Compton College and had a part time job. I graduated high school on time, had 15 units with a 3.87 average enough money saved to buy a new VW bug and got accepted to the UCLA medical school as a premed major. The problem was, that by this time the "T" surges were tearing me apart and I was becoming suicidally depressed. the main problem was that the information about GID was being suppressed by the society I lived in. Information was out there, but finding it was like finding a needle in a hay stack.

I attempted suicide in 1970, but was caught in the the nick of time and given the option of either getting counseling or being institutionalized. I opted for counseling. After a few sessions, the therapist told me that I had some severe gender issues and referred me to a therapist that was tied in to the HBIGDA certifications, such as they were in 1970. This was the first time that I had ever heard the word transsexual or that a thing called GID was even a medical condition, even though it was heavily disputed.

Over the next year, I had worked through most of the issues and was ready to start the HRT that was available back then. The problem? I as still under age 21 and required parental permission to start HRT. My father tore up the consent form and told me he would kill me if I tried this. Dad was a man of his word.

A few months later, I was gang raped and beaten. A few months later I broke out with severe psoriasis over about 90% of my body and put on chemo after all of the traditional failures for the affliction failed to work. The chemo agent that they had me on was pulled from the market as it caused carcinoma in about 15% of those treated with it. I was one of the "lucky ones" as I was diagnosed with gastric carcinoma in 1972 and underwent another round of Chemo and radiation, which cured the cancer, but gave me a medical history that made physicians decline to treat my GID. This went on for over 34 years.

About two years ago, I started HRT, with spiro and estradiol, but I spent about three years on the Internet researching transition and getting a risk to benefit scenario together, while again becoming suicidally depressed. I have been off and on antidepressants, mood stabilizers, antianxiety medications for almost 34 years, with the benefits of this approach becoming increasingly less effective. I was finally able to convince my primary care physician to start me on HRT after a 40-day eval at the Tom Waddell clinic during an outpatient depression program. the diagnosis came back as severe Gender Identity Dysfunction.

The point of all of this is simple. We do not live in a society that has religious, or most other types of freedoms. A lot of knowledge was suppressed 30 to 40 years ago and those that deviated were severely discriminated against, beaten, arrested and detained under very cruel conditions, killed with impunity and experienced a host of other negative situations. Some like Northern Jane were able to make the journey. Others like me were stopped dead in our tracks. Things are a lot better today, but sisters (and brothers) beware. We do not live in a civilized society. Transition is still a risky business, both medically and socially. We still have a long way to go to get our place in the sun. You can not be a pussy to get a pussy.You need to be strong and very aware of things around you. Do not take unnecessary chances.

Hugs to all,
Joanie

p.s. Joanie Fixed poutine for dinner tonight with fresh French fries, mushroom gravy, plenty of cheese curds and fresh ground black pepper. I liked it! Carol.

[Updated on: Thu, 31 January 2008 00:15]

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Thu, 31 January 2008 03:46

Danie

Transition really never came up. Between having a male twin and being utterly outcast by 2nd grade and the distraction of a rather feminine body after puberty, I never really made any gender connections to my feelings until college. And then for a long time I assumed I had an ability to process and accept the ambiguity that TSs did not.

Actually it turned out I was just too withdrawn to recognize the problem. Once I opened up in a relationship in my 30s things fell apart in a hurry.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Thu, 31 January 2008 05:51

Gina

remember as I was thirteen I use to be a happy kid, I knew I wanted to transition but thought that with time things would happen as they had to happen. To know hat you have room for the future, to dream about it lives you such a relieve, the tension I had as a transgender kid I would release it by dreaming by making plans of the woman I would be in the future. Well I could never transition, I grew up in a small town, with a very rigid gender system, it worked for most of the people, small people suppose to have simple conventions.. I those days I did not do it because I was afraid of rejection, I saw the way transgender or gay people were treated.So then I stated to create a space in my mind were I would store all this issues, the questioning, my disappointment, all the information about transsexualism, my dream, my life. It really affected my life, since this space started to occupy a huge space in myself, I started to have problems focusing, I became very inconsistent,easy to get frustrated, and very negative about myself. At a point I was convince by a friend that everybody goes trough issues like this, and I was just weak.So I worked on this to re-define myself, I was a crossdreser told myself once, I'm just confused. But never worked.

This has shaped who I am today, every relationship, every choice.I have lost many things because of this, but over all my peace of mind.I asked you trying to project myself in you in the future..

I'm very grateful to all of you for your answers, to know that you are not alone, is such an essential thing...

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Mon, 04 February 2008 10:28

ZoeB

How did I cope? Good question, and I'm not too sure even now about the answer.

One part of me thought that being a boy wasn't too bad. Boys got to do lots of stuff I wanted to do. Girl in Boy Body? OK, so what? No big deal, many have worse things in their lives.

Part of me knew that the only way I'd ever have babies was to father them, and motherhood (or as close as I could get to it) was far more important to me than femininity. I didn't feel like a classical female as seen in the UK in the 1960's anyway.

Part of me looked in the mirror, and decided that it was far better to be a pretend-boy than the ugliest girl in town.

Part of me looked at the few TS life stories that I had access to, the entertainers and showgirls, and saw people as totally unlike this frumpy, geeky engineer as it was possible to be. So I couldn't possibly be TS, could I?

And part of me thought that I was a boy with this silly but persistent delusion that I should have been born a girl.

Overall... either I had to believe that I was a girl with a boy body that could never, ever look normal, a horrible situation that would have driven me insane, and killed me; Or that I was a boy with just a minor quirk, nothing important really, just this idea that never ever went away that the body was all wrong. That I could live with. Ok, it meant that I had to forget things: that I'd have bouts of sheer misery that couldn't be entirely suppressed: that I'd have to settle for being an honourary girl to my G/Fs, the "guy" they all went to to get the "male viewpoint": and of course sex was a matter of pleasing my partner, not something that ever felt right. But I could live with it. Besides which, it's not as if there was any alternative.

I'd still be doing it if my body hadn't started changing. But once an alternative opened up... I could resist, just. Then I found out I was sterile, and at that moment transition became inevitable, irresistible, and SRS a matter of when, not if. I couldn't pass as male anyway. I guess I just went with the flow.

I didn't know what happiness meant, you see, so I didn't miss it. Had I had any inkling of just how good normality would feel, I couldn't have lived as long as I did, as transition in Australia was impossible for someone with my build until about 12 years ago. Only those who would be gracile, pretty, and stereotypically feminine were accepted for treatment.

Hugs from the Zoe of Oz

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Mon, 04 February 2008 12:06

Rebekah

God, for the heartache and hurt on this thread. And the courage to keep going. I read through them all and just bawled. R

Re: Question for older transitioners..

Mon, 04 February 2008 13:36

Gina

Thank you Zoe,
I really find myself very identified with the way you put your process of acceptance. In my case has been like that, there is a long list of reasoning that I put in my mind to stop me from transitioning.In the process many concepts that we take for granted are putted at stake, values, love, ethics, and what is really transcendent.What is that is so problematic, gender as a system or our revel souls ?
Little by little I have been scratching items off my list and that is why I'm here making this questions..

Re: Question for older transitioners..

Tue, 05 February 2008 13:25

Anonymous

Anyone who grew up in the forties, fifties or sixties was pretty much on their own. There wasn't any printed information available, there wasn't any internet, there weren't any counselors etc. It was sink or swim by yourself and many couldn't swim.

In my case I knew I couldn't confide in anybody. I couldn't tell my parents and I couldn't talk about it with friends or teachers because I knew I would probably end up in a mental instituition. The subject was simply taboo.

I guess I was lucky because in appearance I looked like a typical male. I didn't have any feminine mannerisms so I came to believe that I just had to be a better boy/youth/man and the feelings within me that I should be a girl would eventually go away. They didn't of course but by trying to be the best man I could be I married, had children and raised a family.
I functioned fairly well and no one knew my secret until recently when the dam broke and all the pent up feelings came flooding out and nearly overwhelmed me. I didn't know what was happening to me and I didn't really know what transsexualism was until I learned from the internet. I remember how excited I was when I first came across information on the internet and realized I wasn't the only senior citizen dealing with this condition.

As an item of interest for all my years until recently I apparently subconsciously developed a macho image and mannerisms that were only a coping mechanism and not the real natural me. What I found very strange is that all those male mannerisms vanished virtually overnight when I finally accepted my female self. Now my mannerisms are very female and it happened completely out of the blue. My wife now says I am more feminine in my walk and mannerisms than she is, so much so that if I need to walk like a man I definitely have to concentrate to do that. I take this as proof that I have always been a woman and the male me was only a construct, but I still find it odd how easily I went from macho male to female without even trying.

To conclude I would say the young people today don't realize how good they have it because information and help is readily available.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 06 February 2008 12:20

Charlene

Perhaps I should not be responding here at all, since I have not transitioned, am not doing so (though some think I am doing it slowly, I disagree) and hope not to. Whether I can manage that is still quite unclear - my sense of that changes by the day, and even the time of day. But some of my experience may help answer the question.

I suppose the earliest reason is that I didn't know what this was. Whether because of very very early social conditioning and repression, or perhaps just the nature of my particular gender condition, I sensed from the time I was five years of age (and earlier, I think) that "something" wanted to change me to a girl. It seemed external. Then for decades, many of my experiences were similar to to Zoe's ... except that yes, "it" did "take over" rather often. I dressed from when I was eight or 10 or so .. though it was substantially subdued during my later teens and very early twenties, during which time that I finally got it together and became reasonably well socialized as a male. And I always managed to push my gender incongruities away - until my latish 40's, when it finally became clear who it was that wanted / needed me to be a woman. And even then ...

Quote:

Overall... either I had to believe that I was a girl with a boy body that could never, ever look normal, a horrible situation that would have driven me insane, and killed me; Or that I was a boy with just a minor quirk, nothing important really, just this idea that never ever went away that the body was all wrong. That I could live with. Ok, it meant that I had to forget things: that I'd have bouts of sheer misery that couldn't be entirely suppressed: that I'd have to settle for being an honourary girl to my G/Fs, the "guy" they all went to to get the "male viewpoint": and of course sex was a matter of pleasing my partner, not something that ever felt right. But I could live with it. Besides which, it's not as if there was any alternative.

Yep, on every point. Ah, but by then I was married, two wonderful daughters, and I have always been about my family. I think I'd have made a good Mom. Actually had a fair amount of loving fun poked at me with exactly that notion.

But even accepting that I was trans or something like it (and hey, I still am having trouble with that, three months into low-dose HRT and feeling considerably better for it ... go figure), I could not - still cannot - put them through this. Well, actually, my spouse is going through some changes with me. To an extent. Not at all comfortable. Does not know if she'd be able to stay with me if I transition. But it's not the threat of loss, which frankly I can't even conceive at this point, but the notion of the crushing change I'd put them through. Some have said that it makes no sense to be a martyr. This is not martyrdom - it's simply taking care of what I love. If change must come, then it will come as gradually and in a sense, naturally as the body changes I'm slowly undergoing now. Similar in a way to how we made the decision that hormones would be right for me, and that I should spend time as me (which necessarily takes me away from home, because she still cannot handle seeing me as Charlene).

Well, I don't know if this is helpful. It's another perspective, from someone who's still there.

Oh right, one more item from Zoe's post:

Quote:

I didn't know what happiness meant, you see, so I didn't miss it.

Well, I knew something wasn't right. As did my spouse; when I figured out that it was really a gender issue, she said, "Aha! so that's it!" And I have had glimpses - no, more than that - some real sense of what a relaxed, happy, joyful, confident existence might be like. It's coming clear that I need more hormones, and that I need to be able to act and even present as myself more (which I do not understand - why should presentation make a bit of difference? but it truly does seem to. less important as the hormones have their influence, but still certainly true). So I guess one remaining answer to the question is that ignorance - of what life might be like - has kept me from making the change.

Charlene

Re: Question for older transitioners..

Thu, 07 February 2008 08:08

ZoeB

Anonymous wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 08:25

Anyone who grew up in the forties, fifties or sixties was pretty much on their own. There wasn't any printed information available, there wasn't any internet, there weren't any counselors etc.

What is more, what little information there was was often wrong. And if you didn't conform to a Doris Day stereotype, you were out of luck.

A few managed it. A very few. We're lucky to have one or two of them here on BL.

But for those of us "with ravaged faces, lacking in the social graces" there was no alternative.

Things are better now, but kids still face an uphill battle. It's up to us to make sure they don't get the same kind of rubbish we did, to ease their paths, even if we'll never look half as good as they will. Them's the breaks.

Hugs from the Zoe of Oz

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Mon, 11 February 2008 07:30

Anonymous

Rebekah wrote on Mon, 04 February 2008 15:06

God, for the heartache and hurt on this thread. And the courage to keep going. I read through them all and just bawled. R

Hi R,

Funny...This thread had a similar effect on me as well...

Could there actually be something to this thing called GID? The parallels are just too consistent to be a mere psychological trauma it would seem.

Hugs,
Joanie

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Tue, 12 February 2008 15:11

Skye

No Message Body

[Updated on: Sun, 01 February 2009 18:53]

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Tue, 12 February 2008 19:34

trans_mag

Skye wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 18:11

I had surgery when I was 34. Why did I wait so long? Things are never as clear cut and easy as some make them sound.

Oh, Honey... You're *not* an older transitioner! I'm working hard toward having my surgery before I turn 56. I have pre-op friends who are much older than me -- the oldest being 68...

Here;s the thing:

I personally know pre- and post-op transwomen here in my town, who range in age from 19 to 74. And *every last one of them* will tell you that they didn't start their transition soon enough.

Why did I *avoid* transition? Unfortunate choice of words... I tried more than once and got slapped down *hard* by the establishment both times. Everyone and every institution that might have offered me help actually did all they could to *discourage* me.

I tried to come out and pursue transition when I was 17, back in 1970. A shrink who was supposed to be an expert in "sex problems" looked me square in the eye and said, "If you persist in identifying yourself as a man trapped in a women's body," -- the catch phrase of the day -- "You'll be branded a delusional paranoiac, labelled for life and never be able to have a career or hold any position of trust. You'll ruin your life! And if you tell anyone I said this to you, I'll deny it."

He thought he was doing me a favour, I guess. Scared me back into the farthest corner of my closet for another 15 years.

Then, in my early 30s, I had another major crisis and felt that the only way to save my life was to seek therapy and pursue transition. But there was no help for me anywhere and, again, everyone I talked to who was involved with the 'mental health community' (again, the vernacular of the day) warned me that I'd be branded a nut case, and/or become a pariah if I tried to move forward.

When I was in my early 50s and learned that my 22-year marriage would definitely be ending soon, I thought, "This is an opportunity, not a curse. I can cash in my life's equity and reinvest it on the real me!" And that's what I'm doing.

It wasn't possible for me to pursue transition earlier, because the world wasn't ready for me. All the support mechanisms and health care providers -- from therapists to endocrinologists to surgeons -- are now in place and GID is now considered a legitimate, treatable disease. (If only it was covered by government health insurance!)

We have a saying here in my town, especially among us older gals: "It's a good time to be trans!" Smile

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Mon, 18 February 2008 18:19

Jennywocky

Gina wrote on Wed, 30 January 2008 08:59

You avoided to transition when you were younger, for different reasons. What were you thinking? Was there some sort of consolation that helped you to go trough during those days, what was it? Since you could make today, I mean you are alive, I wonder If there was an specific thing you guys found peace on.. If this was so how did that shaped the person you are today?

The first time I really could have transitioned (i.e., had money, desperately wanted to, and really saw it as an option) was when I was 27 or so.

I stayed for many different reasons, some including:

1. I felt guilty over hurting my wife and very young children (and I doubt I would have gotten to be part of my children's lives).
2. I had been brought up in and had a religious faith that taught me that transition was a sin.
3. I couldn't stand the thought of everyone hating me or viewing me as an awful person because I would be breaking my vows and also changing my physical sex.
4. I was just scared that I wouldn't be able to transition successfully, that people would just laugh at me and I would be a freak.

Now I am 39, and things are different. My faith changed over the years so I no longer think it's a sin, I have relationships with my children that I think are going to persist past transition, and I feel "tough enough" emotionally to survive and thrive in the process. I also have grown more accepting of what body I have and am willing to accept its limitations.

At the time, I consoled myself with my family -- that I still had them -- and I focused a great deal on "accomplishing things," pouring myself into personal projects and trying to make my marriage successful.

I am disappointed that I am 39 and not doing this when young (having more of a life ahead of me), but I don't really regret my staying because it did shape me into the person I am today. There were things I needed to work through in the last ten years, life lessons I needed to learn, and I have children I love and who love me. I know what maturity I have, I might not easily have had if I had survived transition (and I think I was too weak to make it before).

The "me" I am now is someone who can take criticism more in stride, can take risks, is willing to start over if need be, isn't so caught up on success but just wants to live a fulfilling life, is someone who knows how to love, someone who knows what she needs to thrive, and so on.

[Updated on: Mon, 18 February 2008 18:20]

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sun, 23 March 2008 14:36

Maureen

Suppression and denial mostly, in varying degrees at different times. Disassociation as well; I would just disconnect from those feelings, especially when the cross-dressing beast took over me. I'd do it for awhile (always when no one was around; I never got caught) then put the clothes, the persona, and all those thoughts out of my head.

Some people throw themselves into drink, drugs, or work. I did none of those. Sports: surfing, triathlons, soccer, were my escape from myself. And every bit as destructive as those others. I was a sports addict to the point that it ruined my marriage, my relationship with my children, and darn near my life. I sacrificed everything for the release that sports gave me. No weekend warrior, I had to be doing something every single day, to the neglect of almost everything else. Only when I was involved, and living in the moment, could I quell the shouting in my head.

The rest of the time, especially as I got older, and my marriage started to fall apart, I lashed out with anger. Ugly, irrational anger. I never got violent or physical, except with the occasional inanimate object, but I was a beast to be around. Consequently, I lost my marriage, and my relationship with my kids. They don't know about this "side" of me yet and my biggest fear is that I don't have the strength of a foundation for them to ever accept this, or me. They already view me as an asshole, so now I'll be a sick, deviant, perverted asshole. I plan on coming out to them in another couple of months and I'm guessing that'll be the last I ever see of them. My oldest son, who has his own anger issues, and a violent past, just may kill me.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sun, 23 March 2008 18:49

ZoeB

Gina wrote on Thu, 31 January 2008 00:59

Was there some sort of consolation that helped you to go trough during those days, what was it? Since you could make today, I mean you are alive, I wonder If there was an specific thing you guys found peace on.. If this was so how did that shaped the person you are today?

My own life was in the toilet, unsalvageable. But if I could help others, if I could be a decent human being, well, my life was still a horrible, obscene joke, but maybe I could give it some meaning. I was beyond help. Others weren't. Oh, I was no saint, but sometimes I could make a difference.

And in the meantime, I tried to live a life as close as I could to the one I would have had had I had xx chromosomes and a normal girlhood.

This came in handy when I was able to transition, and my life hasn't changed as much as you might think. The only difference is, I'm me, Zoe. And Happy too. Now I try to help, not by pushing up from Hell, but pulling up from Heaven. It's still help.

Hugs from the Zoe of Oz

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Thu, 03 April 2008 00:16

Davinia

Seeing as the question was asked, here's a reply from a 45 year old girl from the other side of the pond. Back when I got the dream transsexuals were portrayed mainly as some kind of sexual deviants, to want to be one meant you were just a pervert! Almost in the same bracket as a pedophile!! A total freak!

Also, as with many others, I lived in a small town and whilst I was safe to walk outside dressed in the dark, to go out in the daylight would have led to me being seriously injured by the local thugs. I didn't have my first girlfriend until the age of 24 and I ended up marrying her to stop rumours that I was homosexual circulating and to see if I was in fact a man! I wasn't but the marriage came within inches of destroying my life!

It destroyed my career and cost me a fortune in money terms. However, my dream of womanhood stayed, but when the marriage fell apart so did I, having a huge mental breakdown.

That's why it has taken this girl so long to get off the 'starting blocks', but from anytime soon, watch this lady fly!!!
Jumping Smilies

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Thu, 03 April 2008 14:59

Hilary

Davinia wrote on Thu, 03 April 2008 00:16

Davina, I think that story is true for many here, myself included. Thanks for being so open.

Ps - which part of Lancs/ Yorks? I'm just down the M6 at Manchester.

Hugs, Hills x x x

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Fri, 04 April 2008 09:36

Aylwen

Wow... parallels indeed. I don't even have to write my response, just quote others!

Anonymous wrote on Wed, 30 January 2008 06:21

I mentally hamstrung myself. I disassociated my self and became functionally schizophrenic. ... No need for drugs for me dudette, I was already flying high in my own dream state.

Davinia wrote on Thu, 03 April 2008 00:16

Back when I got the dream transsexuals were portrayed mainly as some kind of sexual deviants, to want to be one meant you were just a pervert! Almost in the same bracket as a pedophile!! A total freak!

There was a part of me that knew what was going on the whole time, I think, it just refused to come forward and claim its primacy in my mental make-up until recently.

I know, I probably don't count as a late transitioner either -- I count the official start of my transition at about 18 when I started growing my hair out because I thought it made me look more feminine. I didn't start the medical part of this process for a little over a decade later but I have managed to suppress it through school, college, multiple jobs and even part of a marriage, so... same sorta thing I guess.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 28 May 2008 10:15

Kimberley

Excellent question. I grew up in the 50's and 60's. I had the c**p beat out of me as a young child for femme expression so like so many others who learn Guilt Shame and Fear I went underground.

I remember seeing Christine Jorgensen on television when I was in the 9th grade and it was a revelation; until my parents started to rant about what a sicko and pervert she was. I was shattered.

Of course I then overcompensated with the career and marriage with family and a place in the burbs. All the while I just stayed underground and suffered in silence.

When I was 37 I really hit the wall and all hell let loose. This was worse than my teens even. The counsellor I was seeing helped me through it and I decided I do without transitioning. It would have meant the loss of everything, then as now. The last time I crashed I ended up in a suicide attempt and that was the real beginning. That was 6 years ago. Today I am on disability for GID and hate it. I can only work part time and to come out there would cost me my job (contracts just wouldnt be renewed).

I rely on my therapist and GP as well as a few people who do know I am TS for support. I exist with the GD but dont know how long I can hold out. It is harder every day and the docs are strongly urging HRT.

Anyway, I guess the short answer is a life of denial and suffering. The hell of it is now I know what damage it has done to my children. Given what we know today, I would now opt to transition in my late teens if I could turn back the clock.

Huggs
Kimberley

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 28 May 2008 19:03

Kimberley

At the risk of splitting hairs here... no pun intended...

There is nothing stopping me from transitioning but there are factors delaying it.

First is money. I am on a disability pension and I augment it with some part time teaching at the college. They have a diversity policy of course but it is mostly designed for the students. The college is an old boys network of conservatism. The last t-girl to come out found her contracts were not renewed. Regardless, a 16K gross income doesnt quite cut it.

The option to this is self employment. It is something I am exploring.

Next to the money I have some things I need to do for myself starting with some weight loss. This should relieve the blood pressure problem somewhat. The prostate thing I dont worry about with spiro because that will significantly reduce the cancer risk and there is a history of it in my family. There is also some arthritis although it is minor.

The support systems needed. As you said, I do have my daughter and for that I am on my knees in gratitude. Still I do need more including some solid friendships with GG's. I think this comes to the socialization factor in transition. It is a process I am currently exploring and developing.

There are a couple of other family members who I would really like to have on board as well.

As to the big one; the marriage. I am getting mixed signals here. It is an area we are trying to work out together and although there has been some progress, I would like to see more. Anyway, time will tell with this one. It could go either way.

So those are the delays.

From a mental standpoint I think I could handle it okay but the engineer in me wants all the ducks in a row. I know... geeks! lol.

It has been an extremely rough day today so hopefully I made some sense here.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Wed, 28 May 2008 19:24

Charlene

You made plenty of sense Kim. We have some things in common. Though I am still resisting just for ... well, I dunno why. It is certainly family. It's also ... just my process, I guess. Things are sort of rolling forward anyway. I think.

This is painful, yes. And yes, HRT can help.

Good luck, I hope all goes well for you. See you around here, I guess?

Charlene

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Fri, 30 May 2008 08:44

NorthernJane

I can't comment. I was a total failure at coping and my life was in the toilet before I got out of my teens.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sat, 31 May 2008 01:40

ZoeB

NorthernJane wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 01:44

I can't comment. I was a total failure at coping and my life was in the toilet before I got out of my teens.

And after SRS you were flushed with success!

Hugs from the Zoe of Oz

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sat, 31 May 2008 09:25

Kimberley

Hi Charlene. Yes, I will be bouncing in and out of this as well as other sites. I am not to popular with some of them because I will call them on their uhhhh... stuff.

I think that with a lifetime of misinformation and discrimination I just see it as an obligation to challenge these attitudes wherever I can. I think I just want to make it a better world for all of us and especially for the younger girls if we/I can make it easier for them in their lives.

For myself, I will take what comes my way on my terms. One of my docs is urging me to go on HRT but I refuse until at the very least the domestic situation is ironed out.

HRT is relatively inexpensive but then begins the more expensive procedures; electro, voice, FFS and SRS. Those I cannot afford in any way shape or form so HRT, as much as I want to start, would be moot if I cant continue the process. I guess I just dont see any point to starting then only being able to go part way; especially at my age. I just dont want to be a "failed" transition. *sigh*

Huggs,
Kimberley

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sat, 31 May 2008 09:47

Anonymous

Zoe of Oz said:

"And after SRS you were flushed with success!"

I think something should be said, in reply to this statement, to ensure that newbies, for whom this forum is apparently intended, are not misled about what transition and SRS can, or will, do for them.

No respectable gender-issues therapist will recommend that a patient embark upon the practical phase of transition (HRT, RLE/RLT, SRS and primary recovery) until any pre-existing issues are dealt with.

Similarly, anyone who thinks that the root causes of all their other life issues are rooted in their unrequited transness is in for a rude awakening if they think that all the other issues will vanish in a puff of Fairy Dust when they emerge from the anaesthetic after SRS.

I am privileged to live in a city with a relatively large, very out, very active TS community and I have several friends who can attest personally (and painfully) to the truth of what I've said, above.

Bottom line: I suspect that Zoe of OZ intended her comment to be taken in a playful context. But I respectfully suggest that we must never forget, or minimize the fact, that SRS is *not* a magic bullet and should *never* be advertised as such.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sat, 31 May 2008 10:45

Karen_A

Anonymous wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 12:47

I think something should be said, in reply to this statement, to ensure that newbies, for whom this forum is apparently intended,

Oh there are a fair number of non-newbies here, but most tend to post mostly on he inner boards.

Quote:

are not misled about what transition and SRS can, or will, do for them.

I certainly felt elated right after SRS back in 1998. In general feeling better about one self often (but not always) translates to more success in many areas of life....

But I don't think anybody who is sane really thinks SRS guarentees success in anything though.

Quote:

No respectable gender-issues therapist will recommend that a patient embark upon the practical phase of transition (HRT, RLE/RLT, SRS and primary recovery) until any pre-existing issues are dealt with.

First IMO no respectable therapist would or should recommend TO THE CLIENT that that they start HRT, transition and/or have SRS. That HAS to be initiated by the client and not the therapist. That is how my therapist was and that is how it should be.

In terms of recommending the client to an endo or a surgeon (the "letters") the criteria are sane and understands the ramifications and the therapist feels it is appropriate for them, NOT problem free. Heck some things can not be worked out until after transition or SRS and some issues are simply not related to transition one way or other.

Quote:

Similarly, anyone who thinks that the root causes of all their other life issues are rooted in their unrequited transness is in for a rude awakening if they think that all the other issues will vanish in a puff of Fairy Dust when they emerge from the anaesthetic after SRS.

THAT would be a reason not to recommend IMO.

Quote:

I am privileged to live in a city with a relatively large, very out, very active TS community and I have several friends who can attest personally (and painfully) to the truth of what I've said, above.

I hear a lot of that on line... I live is an area witha lot of TSes (Boston area) and I've not know anyone with that experience.

BTW I'm not sure I would call living in a T-aware area a privilege.

Quote:

Bottom line: I suspect that Zoe of OZ intended her comment to be taken in a playful context. But I respectfully suggest that we must never forget, or minimize the fact, that SRS is *not* a magic bullet and should *never* be advertised as such.

Well no one ever accused me of being an optimist and spreading light and cheerfulness, that's for sure! Wink

But while there are undoubtedly are some who are that clueless, I think very few would take what so said as the literal truth.

BTW Are you happy you had it, if you did?

- Karen

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sat, 31 May 2008 11:01

Hilary

Surgery may not cure all your ills, but it sure goes a hell of a long way to removing some or all of the stress associated with GID.

The hours, weeks and months following surgery were a joy for me! However, life goes on. If you were a pauper before surgery, you'll be a pauper after surgery.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sat, 31 May 2008 12:52

Anonymous

Karen said: "BTW Are you happy you had it, if you did?"

Yes. Very. Getting on with my life and loving it! :-)

It's *you* who sounds unhappy -- maybe even bitter. I'm sorry your life hasn't worked out as you had hoped.

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sat, 31 May 2008 12:58

Karen_A

Anonymous wrote on Sat, 31 May 2008 15:52

Karen said: "BTW Are you happy you had it, if you did?"

Yes. Very. Getting on with my life and loving it! Smile

It's *you* who sounds unhappy -- maybe even bitter. I'm sorry your life hasn't worked out as you had hoped.

No I'm not bitter, at all. My life is a mixed bag with good things and some difficult things, as it is for most. I tend of be a pessimist, but I have been that all my life.

BTW I noticed you did not address the substace of what I said about criteria in your response.

- Karen

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sun, 01 June 2008 07:50

Anonymous

Karen said:

"...you did not address the substance of what I said about criteria in your response."

Sorry, I seem to have missed your point, there... What point(s), exactly, did you hope I would address?

Re: Question for older transsitioners..

Sun, 01 June 2008 07:53

Gina

Hello Kimberly,

Is very reassuring to find out that our processes of realization and copping are similar.That was not possible until very recently; technology has made it easier for us in that sense.
I have not transisioned yet however, in my mind I am half the way. I feel caught in the middle of the road now, I am conscious of my transexuality, and to realized that puts you in a another place.Is not an easy place to be, you feel shapeless inside, to make a decision takes double the time, at least for me.I wait from signals from the outside world to react according to my actual gender presentation. In short this type of functioning is doomed to fail, someone said that happiness is the daughter of freedom, and freedom can be only experienced when you act according to what your inner self tells you,not in a narcissistic or selfish way; with maturity, being gentle to ourself translates into gentleness to the world.

I don't question it anymore, I just try to ignore it, I am not being fair with me, I am failing to myself.In short I am not free, I am aware now I have to act.
Gender is such a important and complex thing for us humans.
And we T's reality can see gender with different eyes, as outsiders, we can see nuances that not many people can see, this is just a byproduct of our condition, and I believe is great.

So Kimberly, when I hear the word failure this is what it comes to my mind, I just wanted to share it with you.

Thank you very much everyone for your input..

Gina

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